WHY NO LOVE FOR THE FAE?
procurer of bagels and other baked goods

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#15
It was in the chat and it's not my idea, but I'm throwing it in here so it doesn't get lost (and whoever it was can post with more details and take credit). However, I think the idea of a new Fae tribe coming in might be really fun? (I have ideas at that, lol). Something that makes it feel a little newer and more approachable? Also, site drama!

EDIT: also if you wanted to go for a revamp, I always think of Fae more like those in Folk of the Air or Court if Thorns and Roses. Which I realize is not the only type but it may be fun to have something like that? Not sure how many changes you want to make, but throwing that out there (and can elaborate if needed if you haven’t read those).
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Am I famous yet?

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#16
LMAO watch me have made this entire thing up in my head.

Ok, so I very much thought that the Sea of Branches Fae/Naiad ceremony people were the "other" Fae people that were part of the civil wars with the Sidhe Village. Looking back, there's no evidence to support that other than that there's a settlement there that none of the PCs live in. MY BAD.

That being said... could be interesting to have that flair up again. The Guardian of the Greatwood thing was pretty cool. Maybe the lack of male Fae was a problem?

Also, I'll repeat - Dragon danger would be cool.
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Hater of tables, lover of fast threads

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#17
I actually love the 'no lying' mechanic for them, and I don't mind the age difference at all for a longer lived species. For me, it's largely the level cap. I completely understand why it's there because I agree that they do tend towards OP with being hybrid, but they're also fairly limited in that hybridness, with fewer magics to choose from and far fewer shifts. And now that levels for humans are increasing beyond 10, it really feels like the Fae eventually get left behind in comparison with stats. I love the leveling mechanics on this site tho, so I'm definitely biased towards races that can continue to expand and grow.

I also agree on the lore. We know that the Fae have a bloody history of civil war, but we don't really see that mechanically, even as background NPC drama. Has it always been Sidhe vs Whispershore, or are there are other towns/villages/groups of Fae out there causing/engaging in conflict with the two we know about? Are the two 'sites' we know about one group of Fae, or two very different groups? Or are the wars all in the past? Delah was presented as speaking for all the Fae as Warchief, or at least that's how I interpreted her, which made the Fae seem more like a united front.

And then there's the cyclical problem of "there aren't many Fae so there aren't many people to RP with so I'm not going to make one because I don't want to get stuck being unable to level/interact with other Fae, which means the numbers of Fae never increase." ^^; Like a few others have said, I've got time/muse for limited characters, so if it looks like Fae are going to be hard to interact with, I'll go with a human that has more options.

EDIT:
Also to add in, once other areas started opening up, a lot of the plot drama shifted to Halo and Torchline. The HG has an established base of PCs to keep it hopping and generate player-plots in the region, but the Greatwood hasn't had a lot of RE/drama/plot to draw people back to it in recent months. If you make a Fae you pretty much have to leave the Greatwood to engage in any site-wide events/Quests/etc, both player-driven and admin-driven, so it's more enticing to make a character from the newer areas where there's more activity going on.
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The Best
Incredible Incredulator

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Mowgli - Mythical - Crazy fire-breathing horse
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#18
Sorry Astor, you're right. I'm a dumbass and Honey has explained to me, lol
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#19
I feel like Cirago nailed it in his last paragraph. I'm still on mobile so excuse typos and general suck.

Nephele for me was a scientist, I made her that way specifically to circumvent the "humans bad" which, while true like you said that it wasn't enforced or demanded, kind of came about naturally not just from IC events but also from the active Fae kind of side eyeing and playing off the other Fae characters to try and establish some sort of unity and community. Like Cirago pointed out, I had to make Neph the way she was because otherwise what is her drive to leave the GW? Her curiosity and desire to record human habits is what I used to get her exploring the Grounds. Because that's where all the action is and the GW is left as a kind of empty void.

I love the Fae, and really want to see them thrive. I love flighted characters (laughs in Pegasus forever) and I agree hitting level 5 is an achievement of itself. But illusion magic is one of the less used, and there's personally less drive to level them because the rewards aren't as immediate and fun (and tickle the serotonin machine) as Abandoned or Attuned for example.

I would love to play another Fae someday depending on how this brainstorming goes. Nephele is at a disadvantage for me because I'm trying to prioritize my others, on a purely person level. But I do truly love the Fae race, I just think a bit of revamp would be good for them too.
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Hater of tables, lover of fast threads

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#20
I just went through the leveling and it looks like, at level 5, they have half the number of magic slots of an Abandoned, and half the number of shifts as an Attuned at that point, and one less stat point than an Abandoned which I'm guessing is offset by their ability to fly? Which makes sense for trying to keep them as hybrids but without being OP. But they have no chances to upgrade their magic for 'free' via leveling, and the only way to gain more magic is to either win Drops/get Quests or spend MP. That could be daunting for people who want the character to be sturdy/strong enough to participate in KQs and PQ+s without being one-shot kills, especially if people want to use their MP to flesh out characters who have more leveling potential. I'm just guessing here, but that might be affecting keeping the Fae out of major/dangerous threads, since they have the cool factor of hybrids, but without the power utility of multiple shifts or upgraded/mastered magics without spending 1000MP to get there.

That said, it looks like they could continue to level up under that sort of hybrid pace, with limited magic schools offered at higher levels (basic earth magic OR air magic; upgrade an existing magic, etc), partial shifting gained at level 7, for instance, and a second animal form at level 10? idk just throwing ideas out there ^^;
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procurer of bagels and other baked goods

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#21
So I did some reading and thinking over the takeover idea/point #4 (Lack of a leader (someone can have Delah, or she can die and someone can take over???)) and wanted to sort of better flesh out why I think this might be a good idea.

Delah is pretty established and set in her ways. I have read some of her posts there's a few things I notice.
  • She clearly doesn't like people in her woods, but I can see how that might read as more that she just doesn't like humans. Not that this means all Fae can't/won't like people, but it might influence them if that's the impression that's running around (which I think based on this thread is at least a little bit the impression people have gotten, even if it's not actually true...sometimes impressions take over).
  • As a player picking her up, it seems maybe hard to play her if you don't know her/the history of Caido, because she knows a lot and has been around forever, and most of us don't know what the admins know/can make up. Also she never leaves the Greatwood (and why should she?), but as a player when all the action is elsewhere, that definitely feels a little limiting. And though I know IC change is definitely possible, to suddenly be an explorer type may be pushing it for change.

The idea of a takeover is interesting because it:
  • Would stir up some drama in the Greatwood, and it sounds like there's been a lack of plot there lately.
  • Would give IC reason for some change. New leader, a new set of expectations (which could still work within the Fae lore).

So while definitely not necessary, I do think it could be fun.

Also, just some other random thoughts.
  • Do they have to be short? This is a super weird turnoff for me, at least, though certainly not a deal breaker.
  • If it feels too OP to keep leveling them with magic/shifts and flight, maybe they can't all fly? Maybe they can pick a 'track', so to speak. Like maybe they really just want to be earth magicy type, or water magicy type, or shifty animaly, or they want to be tiny and fly. Maybe as they level it's an "or" situation? This might also be a giant PIA to manage and therefore a terrible idea, but just a thought. The Fae are pretty varied as a race, so if there's a reasonable way to include that in the game, it might be kinda cool.
  • I think the fact that they can’t lie is awesome, and I also love the glamor magic. Both those things feel very Fae to me and would hate to see them go.
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php magician

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#22
I know I'm barely here but I've been giving this some thought, and here's my jumbled cents.

  • The leveling cap: I get why it's there, but I think most people tend to look at their future characters and their long-term goals. Having the fae be comparatively crippled in terms of power (levels attainable, magic/shifts attainable, etc) is just like.. there's not really anything mechanic-wise to offset that right now. If they were absolutely thriving as an rp race people would make them for the amazing plot opportunities and rich rp, y'know?

  • Their appearance/age: A lot of people have a clear idea of what they want in a character, and most of it is applicable to any race - except the Fae (and maybe mermaids idk yet but they seem adoptable only for now). They have a clearly defined appearance structure (skin, eyes, build, height), which, again, makes sense: they're an isolated species. But it's quite limiting for a player. Same with age, kind of, in general I've experienced that people tend to want to play a character that starts younger (18-30), and this doesn't translate easily to Fae. Slower to mature, sure, but older = more memories = more daunting to tackle. Same with them being all Naturals, you can't bring in/adapt a previously existing character (something a lot of people enjoy doing), and we still have a clear majority of Outlander characters.

  • The way that they were introduced: this is problematic because the Greatwood was revealed at a time when the player base was fairly stable and "capped" in terms of how many characters you could handle. This is reflected in the fact that the Hollowed Grounds still has a majority of the citizenship as well. Most people weren't in a position to start playing a Fae, and were more interested in exploring the Greatwood with their already established character.

  • Leadership/lore: There's a lack of possibility due to the fact that the Greatwood (which IC makes sense, yes) cannot be ruled. Delah would be daunting to adopt, even if it's possible, but unless you find a player who's really into the Fae and driven I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone to take over as the Fae leader. The relative lack of lore is a double-edged sword, because if you find someone to take over and start to try and bring them up to activity and shape the culture then yeah, they get a sort of clean slate with general guidelines, but without a cohesive Fae community I think people are just sort of afraid of misrepresenting the idea behind the Fae.

  • Lack of conflict/direction: Others touched upon this too. The Fae are just sort of existing there, seemingly thriving, and there's no drive or purpose to them (partially due to the fact that there's not really anyone playing them).

The long and the short is: with their caps to powers/appearance and their relative immunity (cannot be ruled, Greatwood protects them, etc) there's just... no reason to make a Fae, unless you really want a Fae. What I think they need is to be bumped up to the same level as the others to make them a viable/attractive choice, and some danger. I have some ideas that could also engage the Halo and/or Torchline and HG people and ultimately lead to more cross-species interaction, but most of them would fall flat unless people were willing to pick up an extra character (obviously a Fae, lmfao) and I'm not sure how many people in the community have that free capacity right now.
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#23
I know this topic hasn't been used for a while but now that I'm actually playing a Fae I feel like I can give some better feedback?

For me, the problem is self-perpetuating: the fact that there are so few Fae makes it difficult to play a Fae, which ... discourages people from making more Fae. You've probably already realized this, but from where I'm sitting, it's a pretty acute problem.

Looking at the Fae user group, there are five of them, and only two have been active since early September: Alina and Juniper. That's rough.

It's especially rough given the "thread with 2 other Fae" level-up requirement for level 2. I'm not saying the requirement is bad, but if one more Fae goes inactive, it'll be impossible for new Fae to reach because there just won't be 2 other Fae to thread with. (Fortunately Juniper threaded with Nephele months ago so I'm not personally hit by this.)

The thing is, I find the Fae really interesting -- Juniper's my most active character right now, and I'm quite invested in the "Fae vs. the Ascended" plot. But without more Fae, it's hard to keep that plot moving (another catch-22 we're kind of stuck in, because an active, interesting plot would help encourage people to make more Fae).

I've, uh, been thinking of offering to take more of a leadership role with the Fae, IC and OOC, but I have quite a few other obligations, and I don't want to take that on, then end up dropping it and leaving the Fae in worse straits than before.

I don't know if there's anything that can really be done about this. My only real suggestion would be to have some huge plot stuff that majorly involves the Fae, so that people make Fae characters to get in on it. (I ... might have ideas for how that could pan out, actually, but they're pretty extreme.)
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