Call and Response
Peter Launceleyn
Thief / Assassin

Age: 26 | Height: 5’3” | Race: Abandoned | Nationality: Outlander
Level: 3 (level 2 attuned) - Strg: 11 - Dext: 21 - Endr: 24 - Luck: 8
APRICUM - Mythical - Luxere (Magical darkness)
Played by: Johnny Offline
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Posts: 364
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#29

PETER
Peter isn’t sure how to answer most of her questions, but there is one he is confident about. ”No one should... should punish anyone for... for something they did without knowing better. Whatever that um... actually means. That changes too.” Probably. Maybe? Who really knew? Apparently not him. ”If there’s um... disagreement, and there... there probably will be, then... I don’t know.”

At least her explanation for justification is easier to follow, doesn’t lead his head in circles of trying to make sense of things. It feels like there is a simple answer for this. ”So there’s... theres a difference between um... knowledge, and... and ideas? One is truth, and known, and... you can share it, and one is... just maybes?” He’s not really asking a question, much as it sounds like he is, but he definitely isn’t sure what he’s saying makes sense. So much for a simple answer.


Distance, distance keeps you safe
And I don't wanna scare you away
You're laughing cause it's funny
How you're fooling everybody but me
Peter is very heavily scarred, most noticeably on his hands

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Observer

Age: 19 | Height: 5'11" | Race: Demi-god | Nationality: Natural
Level: 2 - Strg: 15 - Dext: 17 - Endr: 25 - Luck: 3
Played by: Odd Offline
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#30
OIA'I'O
the longer i live
You nod. “You would think that, if you thought it was a social contract. Does that mean then you think children are blameless, in a way? If they don’t know better? And the mentally underdeveloped?” As he says that he doesn’t know about the remainder, you simply nod. You didn’t expect him to. You don’t expect anyone to have all the answers really. And if anything it isn’t about the answers so much as the reasoning that gets you there.

“Oh certainly there is. There is the actual truth of the thing, there’s you believing it, and then there’s you believing it for the right sorts of reasons. But yes, presumably if you don’t know something, your telling someone else that thing doesn’t let them know it. If you don’t have good reasons for it, it seems impossible that someone else could have the right reasons when you didn’t to begin with. “
the longer it feels

Coding base by Sky!


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Peter Launceleyn
Thief / Assassin

Age: 26 | Height: 5’3” | Race: Abandoned | Nationality: Outlander
Level: 3 (level 2 attuned) - Strg: 11 - Dext: 21 - Endr: 24 - Luck: 8
APRICUM - Mythical - Luxere (Magical darkness)
Played by: Johnny Offline
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Posts: 364
MP:
#31

PETER
”Yes! In... in a way.” Peter agrees immediately, glad to have a way to connect his words to hers. ”Children, and... and everyone needs to be... shown, and taught. If... you don’t understand, how can you get in trouble?” At this point, he knew he was describing something other than reality. ”Things might... would be better. Simpler.”

He has to actually use his hands to try to keep up with her explanation about knowledge, just so he doesn’t get lost. In the end though, he just nods and asks: ”What kind of knowledge do you have?”


Distance, distance keeps you safe
And I don't wanna scare you away
You're laughing cause it's funny
How you're fooling everybody but me
Peter is very heavily scarred, most noticeably on his hands

Reply
Observer

Age: 19 | Height: 5'11" | Race: Demi-god | Nationality: Natural
Level: 2 - Strg: 15 - Dext: 17 - Endr: 25 - Luck: 3
Played by: Odd Offline
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#32
OIA'I'O
the longer i live
You nod at this. It is indeed a rather naive view of things, but of course you don't mind at that all. In fact you prefer to talk about the normative status of things—that is, the way they should be—rather than how they are. How the world is is often broken and uninteresting.

"Some of my knowledge is infallible, but not much of it." You reply. "The rest? It is possible that everything I know is wrong. I could still be an acorn, growing with my twin. All of this could be an illusion, a dream. If that's the case, then I can't really know I am here talking to you, because I'm not. I'm an acorn, and you don't exist."
the longer it feels

Coding base by Sky!


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Peter Launceleyn
Thief / Assassin

Age: 26 | Height: 5’3” | Race: Abandoned | Nationality: Outlander
Level: 3 (level 2 attuned) - Strg: 11 - Dext: 21 - Endr: 24 - Luck: 8
APRICUM - Mythical - Luxere (Magical darkness)
Played by: Johnny Offline
Change author:
Posts: 364
MP:
#33

PETER
"What is... what is infallible?" Given how their conversation has gone so far, Peter is curious about what she considers infallible, what considers certain. If infallible and certain are even the same thing. Somehow, the more they talk, the less sure Peter is of things like that.

Instead of focusing on the (mildly terrifying) existential possibility that was presented, Peter focused on entirely the wrong thing. "You're an.. acorn?" Then: "Acorns can dream?" This was far more interesting than the possibility that he wasn't real, a possibility that came to him in the darkest part of night anyway.

But, there is one argument that nags at him, that he has to present. "If I... if I'm not real, uh... don't exist, then... is what I say um... already in you?"


Distance, distance keeps you safe
And I don't wanna scare you away
You're laughing cause it's funny
How you're fooling everybody but me
Peter is very heavily scarred, most noticeably on his hands

Reply
Observer

Age: 19 | Height: 5'11" | Race: Demi-god | Nationality: Natural
Level: 2 - Strg: 15 - Dext: 17 - Endr: 25 - Luck: 3
Played by: Odd Offline
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Posts: 156
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#34
OIA'I'O
the longer i live
'Unerring." And indeed, had Peter voiced those thoughts you would have nodded in happy agreement. The definition of fallibility was indeed contentious. It was one of the reasons you loved studying knowledge so. "For instance, some take math to be infallible. Regardless of the ways in which you might be wrong about the world, 2+2=4 is still a truth that will hold." Of this though, you aren't entirely sure.

"No, not anymore. That's how I was born though." Blinking, you consider. "Well, if I am still an acorn and this is unfolding in my mind, then yes, acorns can dream. I won't know until I wake up and confirm that's what happened."

With a thoughtful nod, you think you agree with this. "In a way, yes. You are just the firing of my synapses. If this is a dream, perhaps you are nothing more than how my brain is currently interpreting the nutrients being fed to me. Or it might be my mind calibrating itself as it grows."
the longer it feels

Coding base by Sky!


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Peter Launceleyn
Thief / Assassin

Age: 26 | Height: 5’3” | Race: Abandoned | Nationality: Outlander
Level: 3 (level 2 attuned) - Strg: 11 - Dext: 21 - Endr: 24 - Luck: 8
APRICUM - Mythical - Luxere (Magical darkness)
Played by: Johnny Offline
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Posts: 364
MP:
#35

PETER
”So... knowledge that you... that know, and that... and that you’re certain is known?” Regardless of what she knew though, Peter couldn’t disagree with her explanation, with the math. Though that did bring up another idea. ”Only things that are... that can be done simply can be... can be known then? Or, um... can be infallible?”

Considering the difference between was and is now, Peter cocked his head. ”If you... were an acorn, then... you still are, right? A little bit? Unless... unless this is a dream, and you still are. Will you... remember this? If it is?”

She agrees with the fact that, if this is a dream, and he doesn’t exist, then all he is is already in her, a thought that truly makes his head ache. ”What about... the things I think? Or... or that I know, or... think I know, that you don’t?”


Distance, distance keeps you safe
And I don't wanna scare you away
You're laughing cause it's funny
How you're fooling everybody but me
Peter is very heavily scarred, most noticeably on his hands

Reply
Observer

Age: 19 | Height: 5'11" | Race: Demi-god | Nationality: Natural
Level: 2 - Strg: 15 - Dext: 17 - Endr: 25 - Luck: 3
Played by: Odd Offline
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Posts: 156
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#36
OIA'I'O
the longer i live
"Knowledge that you know that you know is called luminous knowledge." You say, your voice actually taking on something like a pleasant tone now. "And the regress can continue back infinitely." It is in fact, your favourite regress. What he says next makes you pause, confusion slightly clouding your blue gaze. "Confusion." You say, and then: "Rephrase."

Hypotheticals don't hold much interest for you, if only because there is simply no way to know. "I have no idea. Perhaps all of this will be completely forgotten. Perhaps I will awaken with these memories and it will inform who I am to become." This conversation could be nothing. Or, it could be everything.

"It might only appear that way. For instance, the things you think you know that I do not know, might just be my mind making it seem that way."
the longer it feels

Coding base by Sky!


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Peter Launceleyn
Thief / Assassin

Age: 26 | Height: 5’3” | Race: Abandoned | Nationality: Outlander
Level: 3 (level 2 attuned) - Strg: 11 - Dext: 21 - Endr: 24 - Luck: 8
APRICUM - Mythical - Luxere (Magical darkness)
Played by: Johnny Offline
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Posts: 364
MP:
#37

PETER
"Lunimous knowledge." Peter repeats, his tongue tripping over the word. "Like... light? Or, some other... thing? And re.... regress?" He had thought he could follow along easily enough, but not when she added words for concepts he didn't know yet, or rather, that hadn't been explained yet. He didn't really think he knew any of what they were talking about.

There was a moment of silence while he considered, appreciating the simplicity with which she had asked him to rephrase. "So um, two and two, its... it's simple. Small, and... you can show it. Fingers, or stones. But... when it's big, or when there's more, there's um... arguments. It can be different sometimes. So its... not infallible?" Maybe he was just describing a human fault. Maybe math stayed infallible, no matter how far up you went.

He was happy enough to drop hypotheticals in favour of this new avenue of discussion. "Does that mean... does that mean you do know, or... you're making it up, just not knowing? Or..." He flicked his fingers, willing the word to him. "Consciously, you're... you're not doing it consciously?"


Distance, distance keeps you safe
And I don't wanna scare you away
You're laughing cause it's funny
How you're fooling everybody but me
Peter is very heavily scarred, most noticeably on his hands

Reply
Observer

Age: 19 | Height: 5'11" | Race: Demi-god | Nationality: Natural
Level: 2 - Strg: 15 - Dext: 17 - Endr: 25 - Luck: 3
Played by: Odd Offline
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Posts: 156
MP:
#38
OIA'I'O
the longer i live
Luminous.” You correct easily. “And yes, it is a bit like light. If you know something and you know that you know it, it is like you’re shining light on that bit of knowledge. The regress part is that if you know you know something, then presumably you know that you know that. And you can know that you know that, and on and on.” Now, you are properly smiling, and it transforms your face into something beautiful. Something that doesn’t belong to someone so cold and hard that likes sitting in damp places. But what can you say? This is your favourite regress.

”Oh!” Understanding what he means now, you pause to consider it. “That is actually a very interesting way of putting it. On the one hand, with simple concepts there are fewer variables and thus fewer ways of being wrong. However math is actually quite complicated. We just summarize all the background bits with words like “two” .” So maybe you don’t actually agree. But you like that he was clever enough to have come up with something like it.

“I think probably the latter one. It probably isn’t something I”m doing consciously. In fact, if I”m still an acorn, that means I’m not very developed at all. If this is a dream, it probably isn’t very sophisticated, even though it seems to us like it is.”
the longer it feels

Coding base by Sky!


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Peter Launceleyn
Thief / Assassin

Age: 26 | Height: 5’3” | Race: Abandoned | Nationality: Outlander
Level: 3 (level 2 attuned) - Strg: 11 - Dext: 21 - Endr: 24 - Luck: 8
APRICUM - Mythical - Luxere (Magical darkness)
Played by: Johnny Offline
Change author:
Posts: 364
MP:
#39

PETER
”Lika a Spotlight!” A smile comes to Peters face, not quite as luminous as hers, but still bright, easy even. The regress though, that’s still a little difficult for him to grasp, if only because it’s endless. ”Is there... other re-... other kinds of regress?” Maybe is its said another way he’ll grasp it better.

Peter blinks, slowly, digesting her words, then takes a deep breath. ”Is... is two not really two? What... what is it if... if it’s not two?” Somehow, more than anything else, this is what he got stuck on.

”I don’t... I don’t think that the um, the world would be... or...” He paused, tried to think of how to rephrase his thoughts in a way that made sense. ”It’s too... complicated right now. If... if this is fake, or... just you, then... I think that’s okay.”


Distance, distance keeps you safe
And I don't wanna scare you away
You're laughing cause it's funny
How you're fooling everybody but me
Peter is very heavily scarred, most noticeably on his hands

Reply
Observer

Age: 19 | Height: 5'11" | Race: Demi-god | Nationality: Natural
Level: 2 - Strg: 15 - Dext: 17 - Endr: 25 - Luck: 3
Played by: Odd Offline
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Posts: 156
MP:
#40
OIA'I'O
the longer i live
“Yes. A bit like that.” You agree, your smile only increasing. It delights you to no end to witness someone slowly understanding complex concepts. Perhaps were you more observant, you might have picked out how Peter was slowly thawing. How his movements came easier, how his hesitations were slightly less.

“Sure. Think of it this way, a regress is simply a type of argument of which there is no obvious termination point. You might ask me a question—why are you wearing clothes—and I will answer. Of that you might ask why. Of that you might ask why, and so on it goes. There is no terminal answer that resolves the question.” Was that more helpful? You aren’t sure. Regresses make sense to you almost as much as breathing.

“Well, who’s to say that it is? Maybe two has a different definition. Maybe, there are other species that have a different system of mathematics such that it is twigs and berries that equal two. Or perhaps two plus two equals a river. If we all disappear, would 2+2=4? Or, like your thoughts on ethics, does the idea disappear once we do, as its a social understanding?”

At this you smile, drawing your legs up to your chest. “Have you ever had a dream that seemed so real...and then when you wake up, you realize how silly it was? Perhaps a dragon walked through the street, or perhaps a cat simply started talking to you and it all seemed normal? Maybe that is like this. It only seems complex, but it isn’t.”
the longer it feels

Coding base by Sky!


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Peter Launceleyn
Thief / Assassin

Age: 26 | Height: 5’3” | Race: Abandoned | Nationality: Outlander
Level: 3 (level 2 attuned) - Strg: 11 - Dext: 21 - Endr: 24 - Luck: 8
APRICUM - Mythical - Luxere (Magical darkness)
Played by: Johnny Offline
Change author:
Posts: 364
MP:
#41

PETER
”So... a regress never ends because it’s always making more questions?” Peter thought maybe he understood that, though it still left out a lot of specificity, and gave the definition some wiggle room. ”Is... is this conversation like a regress? I think I could ask questions forever. Or... not ask a terminal question?” He tried using the phrase she had, wondering if it actually made sense.

The answer about math, and numbers, and absolutes, was not one he found he liked though. Numbers had seemed stable, if nothing else, and finding out they might not be as stable as he liked set his mind spinning. ”If it’s a social idea then... wouldn’t...” He trailed off, unable to find a way to make it work without contradicting himself previously. He hummed while he thought, then decided to finish it anyway. ”If numbers are just based on us, then... wouldn’t it still be absolute as long as we’re here?” Maybe he was just repeating himself with different words, but if the only thing that gave numbers meaning was people, wouldn’t that mean they had meaning for as long as it mattered? The longer they spoke, the more it seemed like all his thoughts made sense while he thought them, but as soon as he tried to give them words, they fell apart like a wet piece of paper.

”I... I had more dreams like that before. Before here. I um... I always thought I had them because I wanted things to be different when... when I wasn’t dreaming.” He looked around the cave again, taking it in, then focused back on her. ”Maybe.” He agrees, though he feels more dissatisfied with that the more he thinks on it. ”What happens when... when the dreamer wakes up? Um, to me. Or... you, if this is someone else’s dream?”


Distance, distance keeps you safe
And I don't wanna scare you away
You're laughing cause it's funny
How you're fooling everybody but me
Peter is very heavily scarred, most noticeably on his hands

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